Agenda, decisions and draft minutes

To receive any apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillor John Hunt and from Rev’d Tobie Osmond and Mary Cox – co-opted members. Ruth Hobbs (co-opted member) attended the meeting remotely.

Apologies were received from Councillor John Hunt and from Rev’d Tobie Osmond and Mary Cox – co-opted members. Ruth Hobbs (co-opted member) attended the meeting remotely.

To receive and note any declarations of interests in respect of any matters included on the agenda for consideration at this meeting.

(The other registrable interests of Councillors of Somerset Council, arising from membership of City, Town or Parish Councils and other Local Authorities will automatically be recorded in the minutes: City, Town & Parish Twin Hatters - Somerset Councillors 2023 )

No additional interests, new or updated declarations of interest were made at the meeting.

To approve the minutes from the previous meeting held on Wednesday 18 September 2024.

Resolved that the minutes of the Scrutiny Committee - Children and Families held on Monday 21 October 2024 be confirmed as a correct record.

Resolved that the minutes of the Scrutiny Committee - Children and Families held on Wednesday 18^th September 2024 be confirmed as a correct record. 

The Chair to advise the Committee of any items on which members of the public have requested to speak and advise those members of the public present of the details of the Council’s public participation scheme.

For those members of the public who have submitted any questions or statements, please note, a three minute time limit applies to each speaker and you will be asked to speak before Councillors debate the issue.

We are now live webcasting most of our committee meetings and you are welcome to view and listen to the discussion. The link to each webcast will be available on the meeting webpage, please see details under ‘click here to join online meeting’.

There were no questions asked, statements made or petitions presented.

There were no questions asked, statements made or petitions presented.

To receive an update from the Service Manager, Governance Scrutiny. To assist the discussion, the following documents are attached:-

(a)  The Committee’s work programme

(b)  The Committee’s outcome tracker

Please use the following links to view the latest Somerset Council Forward Plans and Executive Forward Plan of planned key decisions that have been published on the Council’s website:

Somerset Council Forward Plans

Somerset Council Executive Forward Plan

The Committee received and noted the Committee’s current work programme, outcome tracker and the Executive Forward Plan of planned key decisions in the coming months including Executive meetings.

It was agreed that the following items will be added to the work plan:

• LGSCO complaints directed to Somerset – December mtg
• Supported internships
• DoE strategically (successes)
• Role of LCN’s / City / Town / Parish Councils in provision of youth support

Noted that all Cllr’s have received basic DBS checks – officers are looking into issue of enhanced checks.

The Committee noted the Committee’s current work programme, outcome tracker and the Executive Forward Plan of planned key decisions in the coming months including Executive meetings. 

A member asked about the position with DBS checks and the Scrutiny Manager confirmed that all Members, including the co-opted members are required to complete a DBS and certain other members have an ‘enhanced’ DBS. The Scrutiny Manager was asked monitor and to report back if there are any exemptions.  

In conclusion, it was agreed that the following items will be added to the work plan: 

• LGSCO complaints directed to Somerset – December mtg 

• Supported internships 

• DoE strategically (successes) 

• Role of LCN’s / City / Town / Parish Councils in provision of youth support 

To consider PowerPoint presentation.

Note – the Chair will allow 30 minutes for this agenda item.

The Committee received a presentation on the budget position as at the end of Month 5.

It was agreed that:

(a)  officers will produce explanation paper on differences between residential / IMS.

(b)  officers will provide breakdown of placements out of county by ages for CLA.

The Committee received a presentation from Christian Evans, Head of Business Partnering on the Children’s Services Budget Monitoring position as at the end Month 5.

The Committee discussed the presentation in detail and the following points were raised and responded to:  

• The Chair sought clarity on the downward trend shown in the numbers presented on Children in Care. Claire Winter, Executive Director – Children, Families and Education, explained that the numbers are affected by various cohorts of children who tend to stay in care till the age of 18 and represent the highest cost age group.  

• A member requested that the committee be explained why the changing numbers do not show the impact on the finances, for Children Looked After (CLN). The officers explained that the data is based on a month-by-month cases and thus affected by the same. The officers advised that the department could provide the committee with the age groups of pupils coming into and leaving the care services. 

• A member sought clarity on why the placement numbers and forecast numbers for INMS were different. The officers explained that it is because of the number of pupils that have educational and residential provisions. The Chair then recommended there to be an explanation paper to be brought to the committee clarifying dynamics around the budget. 

• With regard to the Homes and Horizons, a member asked how many children are held up in the delay in moving and how are we going to make sure that the budget for children is spent on the right things when a Planner is working on the cases - The Executive Director assured the committee that the planning permission has been given and the planning team are looking to recruit. Homes and Horizons issue has been flagged as top priority and work is proceeding accordingly and the new planner is meant to prioritise the Children’s services. The Director also gave an update on number of beds available in this project and delays are due to several reasons relating to the appropriate support needed by young people.  

• Education and Transport – clarification sought for overspend and the committee was told that the budget was not balanced this year hence the discrepancy. The discrepancy is due to the education costs and not the transportation costs.  

• A member sought clarity on what happens to young people in care once they are 18 years of age – the officers explained the processes in place and the support offer. Asylum seeking children automatically come under the care of Local Authorities and receive the same support as any other child.  

• A member requested data from the Corporate Parent Board relating to Children Looked After, The Chair advised that if the papers exist then they would be circulated.  

• Difference in exclusions numbers between state-maintained schools and academies – the officers agreed to share the data but advised that the numbers are not evenly distributed but would provide the figures illustrating the disparity.  

• The Chair recommended the committee look at the  ...  view the full minutes text for item 6.

To consider PowerPoint presentation providing an overview of the consultation - there will be verbal feedback at the meeting on the responses received.

Note – the Chair will allow 50 minutes for this agenda item.

The Committee received a presentation outlining this consultation and received an update on the responses received as at 21 October 2024

The Executive will be considering recommendations at the meeting on 4 November 2024 which will also include proposals about monitoring.

Agreed that the Sufficiency Strategy will be added to work plan and as an agenda item at December mtg.

The Committee was generally supportive of the proposals and plans; has concerns about how will be implemented; need to be child focussed; like to be kept up dated – item to March ’25 meeting.

The Committee received a presentation from Amelia Walker, Service Director, Education, providing feedback in the consultation on funding and provision for children with additional needs, and received an update on the responses received as at 21 October 2024.  

The Committee discussed the presentation in detail and the following points were raised and responded to:

• the Chair asked what the next step is for these proposals and was advised by the officers that the plan is for the proposals to be taken to the November Executive meeting and will reflect the comments of the Committee.  

• a member sought clarity on monitoring of spending – explained that the report to the Executive will cover this issue. 

• Is it possible to make the phasing of these proposals as short and financially feasible as possible? There is no surety on phasing timescales currently due to dependence on finance outcomes once the proposals are introduced.  

• A member sought clarity on proposal number 5 – incentives and disincentives and officers provided an explanation.  

• Members agreed that the plan presented by the officers is a wonderful plan but sought assurance on how to bring it to fruition – money coming from other budgets; all the enablers needed to deliver the proposals are already in place; proposal to change staffing structure quite considerably to have staff do jobs that are not being done currently; £20.9 million in capital allocation that has not been spent to be brought back and under the Sufficiency Strategy. 

• Movement of children around the proposed stages – no mechanism currently in place to coordinate moving between the stages leading to pupils being stuck in spaces that are costing the Council a lot of money; department is working with educational psychology in the pupil referral units to start looking at this and the consultation is the first stage.  

• Number of children in crisis that cannot be supported, and should the Executive agree with the proposals on 4^th of November 2024, the plan would go into delivery mode as soon as possible. Officers said they are working at pace but due to the time constraints, the programme is being designed in parallel. 

• The consultations end today, are there any open-ended questions and where with the feedback be going? – AI support was used to analyse responses and some key areas have been identified, the officers plan on reading all the feedback and add it to the final proposals going to Executive.  

In conclusion, the Chair summarised that there is general concern about monitoring the implementation of the plans presented; importance of collaborating with partners but it to be a child-centric approach. He asked to be kept up to date on the implementation feedback and it was agreed that an update will be brought to the March meeting of the Committee. 

To consider PowerPoint presentation.

A copy of the audit report on the EHCP finance review (payments system) is attached for information.

Note – the Chair will allow 30 minutes for this agenda item.

The Committee received a presentation on the recent audit of EHCP payments (copy of audit report).

The audit on Inclusion financial management and control will be circulated when available, for information.

Noted looking to change systems and highlighted timescales. The Chair will write to Executive around concerns.

The Committee received a presentation from Amelia Walker, Service Director, Education, on presented the outcomes from the recent audit of Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) Payments and highlighted the LGO focus report. 

It was noted that there has also been a recent audit on Inclusion Financial Management and Control and this report will be circulated to the Committee when it is available, but the draft report headline is that whilst there ‘is work to be done’, there are no acute concerns.  

The Committee discussed the presentation in detail and the following points were raised and responded to:

• The action plan highlights that the management system would not be changed until March 2025 but in the meantime, there is work to be done to reduce these concerns raised by LGO – officers explained that the action plan reflects the implementation timeline. Since the system is very slow to change, the legislative procurement process guides how the procurement must run and then lead the next step to transfer data safely. The timescales are long due to the legislative guidance and there is no feasible way to make it any faster. The draft specification work has started.  

• The number of cases allocated to each case worker, what it presently is, what it historically was and what would be the ideal? – we can inquire and present the numbers; cost of conflict and inability to resolve the situation is what is creating the workload; if there is a low level of conflict, you can deal with an enormous number of cases because it's quite procedural and it will slide through the system quite easily, so it's the challenge in resolving the conflict to find a successful solution for that child is what is pushing the system to breaking point. 

• Have we looked at and audited the complaint system? Is it partly due to our complaint procedure not being as effective as it could be? – the officers explained the service’s process of handling the complaints that are received but the lack of staff has led to issues; Claire Winter, Executive Director – Children, Families and Education, explained that she has put in a system where she reviews these complaints personally on a weekly basis, with a team of senior officers to respond in a timely manner. However, these are complex complaints and often require a lot of detailed research and a lot of detailed discussion. The complaints that get sent to LGO are often about lack of appropriate provision that the insufficiency of send provision (discussed previously) does play into the financial penalties that the Ombudsman hands out, which is an issue across the country. The Association of Directors of Children’s Services is trying to get some resolution for the same.  

• A member asked the Chair if this is something that the committee would like to look at in more depth moving forward around the actual number of complaints that are coming in and the resolution of those so that we aren't fined?  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.

To consider PowerPoint presentation – there will also be a short demonstration at the meeting.

Note – the Chair will allow 20 minutes for this agenda item.

The Committee received a presentation and demonstration on Transform Family View – around using data to support integrated working across the partnership.

Noted the huge potential - and is an excellent piece of work.

Agreed that would be useful for an all member briefing to be arranged.

The Committee received a presentation and demonstration from Gary Davies and Gill Bawler, Transformation Manager, on Transform Family View – using data to support integrated working across the partnership.  

The officers explained that: 

• this is a single digital view of a child or family that aims to break down information barriers for case workers while bringing in holistic support for all involved.  

• it would help make sure that all agencies are operating on the same perspectives allowing early identification, timely intervention and harm prevention.  

• multiple eyes and ears to monitor and understand emerging risks would increase effective response time.  

• all this work has been supported by government grants which were achieved following Josh McAllister’s independent review of Children's Social Care. 

The Committee discussed the presentation in detail and noted its huge potential; it is an excellent piece of work, and it would be useful for an all member briefing to be arranged.  

On behalf of the Committee the Chair thanked the officers for the excellent presentation.  

This is a standing agenda item and will provide details of information sent to Committee members in between meetings, that cover the Committee’s policy areas.

(a)  Corporate Parenting Board Annual Report – circulated on 19 September 2024

(b)  Funding and provision for children with additional needs - consultation – circulated on 26 September 2024

(c)  Somerset Children & Young People’s Plan – circulated on 10 October 2024

If Committee members have any questions or comments on the information, please contact the Committee Administrator on democraticservicesteam@somerset.gov.uk in the first instance and before the date of the meeting.

The Committee noted the following items for information:

(a) Corporate Parenting Board Annual Report – circulated on 19 September 2024

(b) Funding and provision for children with additional needs - consultation – circulated on 26 September 2024

(c) Somerset Children & Young People’s Plan – circulated on 10 October 2024

The Committee noted the following items for information:

(a) Corporate Parenting Board Annual Report – circulated on 19 September 2024

(b) Funding and provision for children with additional needs - consultation – circulated on 26 September 2024

(c) Somerset Children & Young People’s Plan – circulated on 10 October 2024